#revolutionnary fan

[robespapier]

"Ah ça ira" revolutionnary fan from Angers' Beaux Arts museum.

[esther-dot]

IMO, I don’t think A stans who attack Sansa for her classism truly cares about it. I mean, they want A to be queen/lady (and there’s nothing wrong with wanting that) but such an ending would only be reinforcing the structure they’re critising.

And it’s great and important that A plays with lowborn children and tried to defend Mycah but that doesn’t make her a marxist revolutionary lol, it doesn’t erase her own classism. All nobles are classist, a few of them bother to treat peasants relatively well (the Starks, Edmure, etc) but that unfair system still exists. You can’t have nobility without inequality.

And I'll paste this one in too:

Unpopular opinion but if Arya’s stans genuinely believed in her as someone who isn’t classist, they would imagine her leading a social revolution that topples and destroy feudalism. Not someone who serves the conception of hereditary monarchy, serfdom (despite treating them with humanity), hierarchical social categories, etc. Arya as QITN would be a reformist, not a revolutionnary.

(These are so old, I can’t remember which post prompted them, apologies!)

So, I never thought more than being a good leader within the system was a possibility? During GoT they played up this idea that Dany was gonna change the system, "break the wheel," but that was mainly to hide the fact that going to war for a crown was a selfish thing to do, that she wasn't a hero for choosing that path. Considering how Martin has written about the tragedy of the Starks losing Winterfell, the little boys being chased from their home, I never imagined that his ending would involve a king or queen turning around and doing that to another noble child? IMO, there was never going to be any seizing and divvying up wealth.

In ASOIAF, it seems like the focus is much more on having a leader who will be capable of maintaining peace and delivering justice and taking care of some practical concerns. It never even occurred to me to expect an end to feudalism? So, yeah, I would agree that the most anyone could be was a reformist, but I didn't even think that was the idea (in the way fans would mean it) that Martin was tracking. It didn't seem to me that he was gonna do away with nobles, only that he was saying a good noble won't allow his smallfolk to be mistreated and wouldn't ruin their lives for the sake of a crown. I thought that's where the Robb criticism comes in. Robb should have chosen peace, not more fighting.

I also thought the good noble was being presented with Ned. Protect the vulnerable, be horrified by the death of the innocent, adhere to these personal values even when they are in defiance of what your world demands, even when it means betrayal of a "brother" or treason against your king. Obviously, Ned fell short of the ideal, but that's why his children will rise to power, because they have the same core values that Martin wants us to look at as good.

Personally, I think Arya being rebellious and kicking against the rules that annoy her is fun? My little sister was a tomboy, and I have sympathy for Sansa, but I'm amused by Arya. However, I do not attribute as much, uh, let's say, virtue to her behavior as others do. Nor do I attach the same amount of condemnation to Sansa (who recognizes class distinctions) that others do. To me, Martin used the Trident incident to illustrate how the class differences worked because it's a grievance of his that writers ignore them:

And that’s another of my pet peeves about fantasies. The bad authors adopt the class structures of the Middle Ages; where you had the royalty and then you had the nobility and you had the merchant class and then you have the peasants and so forth. But they don’t’ seem to realize what it actually meant. They have scenes where the spunky peasant girl tells off the pretty prince. The pretty prince would have raped the spunky peasant girl. He would have put her in the stocks and then had garbage thrown at her. You know. I mean, the class structures in places like this had teeth. They had consequences. And people were brought up from their childhood to know their place and to know that duties of their class and the privileges of their class. It was always a source of friction when someone got outside of that thing. And I tried to reflect that. (link)

With that in mind, I thought Martin wanted to impress upon the reader the severity of what the hierarchy meant, the prince can do whatever the hell he wants, the noble kid is in danger of being punished (Arya might have lost a hand, Sansa loses Lady), Mycah is killed. We were meant to understand, this world isn't ours. Arya in an important way, didn't understand how the world worked, not really, which is a tool the author was using, her grief and horror, to guide us through learning about station in ASOIAF. We needed to see and feel the disparity.

Obviously, Martin doesn't think that's a good system, but the author slapping us in the face with, “this is horrible but this is the way it is” doesn’t mean we’re to expect a total transformation of Westeros as a whole in the last few chapters of the final book. Martin wants to have some verisimilitude to (his perception of) medieval times, so imo, the idea was never turning Westeros on its head, but for people who cared to end up in control and be better. Not like a modern anarchist, but be good within the confines of that world.

Anyway, because of how many Arya fans hate Sansa/Sansa fans, I never did much with that side of the fandom, but I never had the impression they truly thought anyone would be revolutionizing things. It seemed to me that they believed her ending up QitN was revolutionary not in the sense that she would upend the system, but to them, having a girl who rejected societal norms come out on top felt like an important rejection of a traditional princess “winning.” I assume that's why so much of their focus is on Sansa and how she ruined Arya's life even though she and Arya have been separated for books. It isn't so much what the particular character will do as a leader, which theme is upheld by them ending up in a position of leadership, the "revolutionary" bit is determined by defiance of (what they believe are) genre norms, not societal overhaul on the page.

Now, if we accept that a total societal revolution is off the table in ASOIAF, and knowing that Martin opposes violence pretty vehemently, isn't in favor of imposing your will through violent means, how can someone who rejects society encourage gradual improvement? Wouldn't the "realism" Martin wants be found in a person, who say, can function really, really well within the structure of society but cares enough to try to make things better for others? Someone who can change it all from within because their societal position confers a certain amount of power, but also, they have a notable ability to win admiration, even when it is begrudgingly given? Someone whose compassion, even for enemies, is highlighted? Isn’t that someone who would be able to gradually bring about the kind of realistic change Martin would permit in his world?

[thelittlecrookedtalecomic]

Since you're a fan of Sailor Moon, have you by any chance watched the anime "Revolutionnary Girl Utena" ? There are some parts of the comic that reminds me a bit of it!

I'm definitely a big fan of all the four versions of Utena, both the manga and the anime. Even my nickname, Sonne, comes from an Utena AMV on YouTube from maaaany years ago, with the song "Sonne" by Rammstein, I was absolutely obsessed with that video. I haven't made intentional references to Utena up to now that I was aware of, but unconsciously, it might have happened.

[nesiacha]

Honestly, he's the kind of character that doesn't interest me much (sorry for all the Mirabeau fans who probably have good reasons to love him). I recognize him for good deeds like when he participated in the founding of the Society of Black Friends and perhaps denounced absolutism. But he is one of those people who receives as much money as possible to slow down the revolution while failing to impose his views on the royal family that he nevertheless hopes to see reign despite the duplicity he has seen. (but he also shows greater duplicity). In my eyes if his goal had triumphed, namely that the revolution stopped, there would have been at best an English monarchy with very little representation of the people (and therefore very little change necessary for the people and certainly no idea for get out of the crisis (the revolution of the rich that Marat denounced). In the worst case he would have protected the royal family who would have propagated the counter-revolution in a much more violent way. And for me Mirabeau is worse because he disguised himself as a revolutionary. he had ideals to betray unlike the ultraroyalists who clearly displayed their ideals. It seems that he being a stentor is clearly not everything, he lack some intelligence and revolutionnary like Marat , Robespierre clearly read on him before there were suspicions on him ( and it would be very quick as he make proposiiton of unpopular measures). Like I said before it seems for me he made a lot of bad moves without think of consequences for people( not suprise) but for him too ( I think that if he survived to his illness , he would run away like Talleyrand after the captures of the Tuileries Palace).

Danton at least if he received money never changed his ideals (in fact he took the bribes without fulfilling the part of the bargain from the people who gave him money) that can be very dangerous because if we wanted to sing it with the right evidence it would have been possible but he lasted much longer (kept the revolution going (to a certain point), was smarter in my eyes than a Mirabeau, more effective for the revolution and the country and less sneaky( but stil Danton is sneaky but not the same type than Mirabeau). Do not take this fact as if I appreciate Danton, I do not like him at all and is too glorified in my eyes he is very criticizable and benefits from a free pass in my eyes. too general meaning on films, Youtube (but less on Tumblr). But it has much more merit than Mirabeau, and is in every way more interesting. That's why I talk about it more than Mirabeau. don't know about others here on Tumblr but that's my reason.

I find it strange that there is so little discussion of Mirabeau on frevblr. (but not just him, and figures active in the early years of the Revolution in general). Unlike Danton, who is always put down here, he doesn't get much criticism. But that's not because he's highly regarded, but because he's not given much attention, and at best is treated as Camille's sugar daddy. This is in contrast to the many references to him in history books and literature about Frev.

[padfootagain]

But here are some Star Wars related ones: Solo actually wasn't that bad and Qi'ra is a really cool character and I would love to see more of her. And Anakin/Hayden are so much hotter than Obi Wan/Ewan. And the prequels are better than the originals.

And (sorry for spamming you 😅) Lucifer is way better than Good Omens (I know you love both, so I'm really interested in your answer). Good Omens was just way too chaotic for me

Okay, I’m gonna answer each opinion one by one...

Solo being a good movie :

strongly agree | agree | neutral | disagree | strongly disagree 

I loved it. It was fresh, and maybe not revolutionnary, but it had a lot of good ideas, and even if Harrison Ford will always be Han, I liked Alden Ehrenreich’s performance, and thought he did well. I had fun, and wasn’t disappointed at all, on the contrary, so… yeah, it was great!! Not my favourite SW movie, but definitely not my least favourite either.

About Qi’ra

strongly agree | agree | neutral | disagree | strongly disagree 

I mean… I liked her. I’m not passionate about her character, but I wouldn’t mind to see her again in another SW movie.

About Anakin/Hayben beind hotter than Obi/Ewan

strongly agree | agree | neutral | disagree | strongly disagree

Now, now, now, you will never convince me of that. I am Obi’ s girl, and I’m a huge fan of Ewan’s, so… Nope!

Prequels being better than the Originals

strongly agree | agree | neutral | disagree | strongly disagree

I mean… I like the Prequels, don't get me wrong. I was never a hater of the Prequels, and I enjoy rewatching the movies. And I adore Obi-Wan. And Padmé, she’s so badass. Now, that being said… the movies are just not as good as the Originals. Sorry. On a cinematographic point of view, on the writing, on the plot holes, on the cringing moments that are some scenes (Especially in the second film… I have to skip some scenes, they are too painful to Watch). I totally agree that they are more interesting on the whole building of the SW Universe than the Sequels. But the Originals are better made. And that’s because they were cut right. Sorry, you will not make me change my mind about that either...

About Lucifer being better than Good Omens:

strongly agree | agree | neutral | disagree | strongly disagree 

God knows I love Lucifer!!! I watched the whole show twice!!! And I love Lucifer and Chloe, and Ella is my baby!!! But Good Omens is pure Genius to me, from A to Z. But that’s because I loved what you didn’t like: the fact that it’s completely crazy and chaotic all along. Plus, I’m sorry, but Crowley and Aziraphale make the most perfect example of a perfect ship, and I would die for these idiots.

[handsome-edd]

so my friends said that future edd being an alpha bro strider style revolutionnary when under the red leader’s reign would be cool as shit, and i just softly breathed as i was able to draw and deliver this shit bc ive been, yknow, craving to do that since forever and this was the perfect excuse, but then i realised that i could go further than that

i realised that i could make eduardo like alpha mom lalonde too, and try to come up with a plot for a fanfic

they take weirdass personas to hide from the red leader (edd as some unshaved handsome weirdo “G” and eduardo as a gothic femme-ish drag queen “E”) and end up being celebrities with their artistic work, and use the medias to make everyone belive theyre batshit insane and in some weird delirium about the governement and so get that super extra safe cover to get info from everywhere and spread their message. people do plot theories and weird cults raise around them, adding to their already present network, and its complete bullshit. tord doesnt really bother because he simply neither recognise them, nor wants to be seen as the true dictator he is by instauring censorship of such known figures, and simply because he thinks it’s bullshit- he still sends people after them tho, but definitely not his elites, especially since they are busy with the same network edd and eduardo lead.

they have on mfing tv the pettiest fights ever about whose cover is the best, eduardo bitching that edd’s could be blown so easily bc its super fuckin easy to shave him, while edd grumbles about how makeup can be removed, and they go to events together like a couple but it’s constant bitchiness like eduardo "accidentally" stepping on edd’s foot with his heels, edd equally "accidentally" ripping eduardos dress, who spills shit on his clothes, and so on till they literally have fistfights or sloppy makeouts right in front of the cameras. no one can tell whenever its performance art or actually how they behave, nor what is their actual relationship with things happening between them ranging from hate declarations and fist fights fights, to videos of them having dates and flings, not to mention their completly bizarre wedding no one is quite sure whenever it was a legal one or yet another work of art (people still are trying to find the symbolism behind the penguins)

being a fan of them is a permanent spiritual experience, until they actually deliver years worth of nasty data on tord in what was supposed to be their final work, and raise an entire revolution that washes over the entire country for a week, effectively kicking down the red leader

[randomnameless]

Do we know about the jp reception of the treehouse lolcalisation?

I thought some people there thought Nopes was marketed and produced for """the western fandom""" because of Billy's treatment, and how apparently """the west""" dislikes avatars which impacted Billy's popularity.

Rhea being swapped by Rhage though... even if you don't look at the lines, the VA's direction can transpire from Leigh's dubs, especially in FEH lol

I hope this controversy will not end up with JP companies returning to the "JP exclusive" games like what happened for FE12, but given how FE16 did 50% of its sales in the US, it'd be a financial suicide so either they tighten their grip or return to different release dates, to make sure the localised version isn't full of lols (like Pat's direction) and western players have the same (as much as localising a game allows it!) experience as jp players - or they go with low cost solution to keep the worldwide release date : everything is released at the same time, but with compulsory dual audio for every release !

Granted, it doesn't change the main issue : FE16 is the first FE game to have dual audio after it was nuked from FE14 and FE15, idk if it was a reaction to FE14's lolcalisation, but if it was, Treehouse didn't give a fuck and still lolcalised to their heart's content and apparently it worked, because, again, 50% of the sales were realised in the US.

So even if Treehouse botchers and "disrespect" or "appropriates" FE16, this version still sold like hot cakes - is IS really going to cut its profit to "respect" the spirit of a game? Of course not!

Hell, even subsequent releases have to account for the "Treehouse version of FE16", (seen FE17's localised version who removes the "live in harmony regardless of the races" to swap it by "regardless of the background" because FE Treehouse tried its hardest to remove Supreme Leader's racism against Nabateans) - whereas the gacha game - who was released during the "no dual audio" era, basically endorses and sells - to the "global" market - Fire Emblem Treehouse, and, again, it still makes a lot of money.

So, even if I hate it, to me, it feels like IS knows what kind of bullshit happens with the lolcalisation, but accepts it because Treehouse sells.

Even if it means having, sort of, basically, a 4Kids version of Fodlan for """the West""" and an og!FE16 for the home market.

A redditer once told me Rhage was but a "valid interpretation" of Rhea, but while I think it can be, for a fan, I refuse to consider it for a localisation POV - aka the compulsory lens a fan has to look through to get a peak at a character/game/media.

Take Lolita, fans can think whatever they want after reading it, who's the hero from who's definitely not at all the hero - but if my french localisation (editor?edition?) localises Humbert as the hero and Lolita as obviously scheming and "forcing" Humbert to find her attractive... it's also an interpretation of the original source (albeit a shitty one), but why, as a french reader, must I suffer through this "interpretation" to get an access to the book, and not build my own interpretation, without the french localisation/edition steering me in their interpretation?

If I were to write an academic paper on Lolita, of course I'd read it english (or learn english to read the direct source), but as a random reader who just wants to enjoy something... I'm forced to read a story where Humbert is the protagonist and the hero of the story? Really???

"Revolutionnary imperialist slay qween fights against evil lizards overlord who controls the world and did y'know Church BaD" sold like hot cakes so it became its own thing and got its staying power - granted, it also benefits from FE16's general "but IdEaLs uwu" and the lack of commitment to anything to make sure Supreme alts sell in FEH - but I wonder, if FE16 had bombed, would IS still had to make sure the Treehouse version would still be referenced in Engage and Heroes, or Dimitri, even if the localised!FE17, would have been able to talk about "different races" and even if it wouldn't make sense for a Treehouse player ?

As I see it, IS is in a pinch :

If they keep a tighter grasp on the localisation, lolcalisers can argue saying the "our version made half of the sales of your best selling game, if you annoy us too much, we won't make your game sell here and say bye-bye to half of your sales" and that's something a company doesn't want.

If they let the lolcalisers run wild - the home market is very unhappy about it and we know JP companies can't completely shit on their home market (DBS showed it!) - so they accept to have "two versions" of the same game, and we return to the 2000s - with the added twist that in 2024, people know they're being fed the Treehouse version, and some of them aren't happy about this.

What could happen next ?

I guess the worst could be the 2000s policy Bamco (or Bandai and Namco didn't fusion yet?) had : release a global version that sells very well (TOS), but release another one shortly after, with QOL and more goodies/shinies for the home market (TOS again, the PS2 version was in every aspect, better than the GC one! tfw when the upgraded PS2 port was released in japan before the GC version in the EU T-T).

It really really really sucks and I would hate it if, for a worldwide release, the JP version had more stuff/access to DLC/ than the other releases - but it would make everyone happy?

Lolcalisers could still swap the message of the game by their own - like what they tried to do with FE16 as you noted - while giving more content to the game for the ones who play it, and not the lolcalised one, aka the jp market.

The outcry with Nopes imo - even if it's uncalled as I feel like Nopes is the Bad Ending game so it obviously has shitty ends even if, just like Tru Piss, the devs hide it by addind catchy OSTs and quirky quips here'n'there between the characters - was mostly fueled by the feeling JP players/fanbase got the feeling they were playing the Treehouse version of the game, which is, obviously, not their FE16.

Which is hilarious, in a way, because to them, FE Treehouse is the "Bad Ending" of FE16 - talk about changing the message of the game lol

2 thoughts:

Number one, Emblem Byleth is supposed to be a post-Houses Byleth and has the Sword of the Creator. It's not really confirming which route he is from, but if you think about it it can hint which the route the Emblem isn't from. In order for the Sword of the Creator to work, it needs it's Crest Stone however it's Crest Stone can't be inserted into the sword because it's in Byleth's chest. So for a post-war Byleth to be able to use the SotC, they'd still need that rock and said rock disappears in Flower. Their solo ending says he continues to wield his legendary sword, but that ending says Byleth loses his power due to an injury, an injury we don't see them taking. The Crest Stone just disappears, with the only explanation coming from the Japanese text that it has "shattered" aka you broke Sothis's heart. We also see Byleth use the Sword of Seiros in the Jeritza ending, pointing to Byleth's solo ending just being propaganda by the empire less people think Edelgard doesn't have the approval of the Goddess.

So if Emblem Byleth is meant to adhere to any form of canon, then he can't be from Flower.

And two, I know the localization controversy is a pretty complicated matter but from what I'm hearing, there's a lot of backlash in Japan over it. Otaku are calling for the localizers to lose their jobs, as they feel what they're doing is both disrespectful and appropriation. But the thing that was really sticking out with me is going back to when Hopes launched we had players in Asia accusing the game of being made to pander to the Western fanbase. In the past, I've seen some fans reverse-engineering the translation, and they appear to know the direction given for Rhea. While people argue that Fates shouldn't be used as a bad translation due to it's age, I can't help but wonder if over there they're using Houses as an example of localizers running wild. Because, let's say it, Treehouse didn't just change lines it tried to change the message of the game itself.